Episode 4: “Love, Lust, & Everything In-Between”

Alesha Dixon:
You’re listening to Wear It’s At. A podcast all about midi-life milestones brought to you by online styling service, Stitch Fix. I’m Alesha Dixon, and today we’re talking all things love, lust and everything in between. And I mean, everything.

Alesha Dixon:
This week I’ll be chatting to former Love Island contestant, humanitarian and Explosive Ordinance disposal expert, Camilla Thurlow. Hi Camilla.

Camilla Thurlow:
Hello.

Alesha Dixon:
Thanks for joining me.

Camilla Thurlow:
Thanks for having me.

Alesha Dixon:
And joining Camilla is DJ’s Social Media Star Radio and television presenter, the wonderful Ashley James.

Ashley James:
Well hello?

Alesha Dixon:
How are you Ash?

Ashley James:
I’m very good. Excited to be here.

Alesha Dixon:
Oh my God, this is going to be a juicy one. I can feel it. So we’ll start off by getting to know you guys a little bit better. So we’re going to go straight in with the first question. So let’s talk about where you’re both at right now. Are you married, are you spoken for, are you single? What’s the deal?

Camilla Thurlow:
So I am actually still with the lovely Jamie Jet. So obviously the new series of Love Island has started. So that’s like coming up for two years now, the-

Alesha Dixon:
Oh, congratulations.

Camilla Thurlow:
… we been together. That’s [crosstalk 00:01:04].

Alesha Dixon:
Lovely lovely couple.

Camilla Thurlow:
Thank you.

Alesha Dixon:
Gorgeous.

Camilla Thurlow:
Very kind.

Alesha Dixon:
What about you, Ash?

Ashley James:
I am very, very single. And I’m actually happy about it. It’s taken a while to get here. I’ve been single for six years, and I feel like I’m just rocking being single at 30.

Alesha Dixon:
So, do you enjoy being single? When you say it’s taken a long time to get here, do you mean you weren’t happy before and now you finally accept that you are?

Ashley James:
Yeah. So my last relationship, it was quite a traumatic breakup in 2014, and it just took me a long time to get over it. Then I had my heart broken a few times, and I think the breakup kind of knocked my confidence. And then as a result of that, I was just attracting the wrong people. And then in the last, I’d say year, I just started thinking, “Do you know what? This actually isn’t really bad. And if I stopped putting my energy on what I don’t have, yeah. Do you know what? It’s actually okay to be single.”

Alesha Dixon:
I think it’s really important, isn’t it? To just accept what your present moment is and whether that’s in a relationship or single. You can’t fight it.

Ashley James:
Exactly. And I think there’s a lot of expectation around age that society puts on us like we should be doing married, or having children by whatever time. And I think it’s not necessarily a good or a bad thing if you are single, because you could meet the love of your life at 40 or 50 or… There’s not really a hurry on life.

Alesha Dixon:
And I have this theory that when you are in a really healthy place and in a place of acceptance that actually you’re putting out the right energy, so therefore you’re going to attract the right person. Whereas if you’re coming from a place of like panicking about it, and you’re anxious about it, then that’s surely what you’re going to attract, because it’s not coming from a.. Because of like a calm place really.

Ashley James:
It’s actually quite liberating now when I’m like looking at dating, I don’t need anyone, because I’m so comfortable by myself.

Alesha Dixon:
Yes, great.

Ashley James:
Whereas in the past, I felt like, “Oh I don’t want to be single. So who can I be with or, and…” Yeah. Now I’m like-

Alesha Dixon:
Would you make wrong choices, because you felt like that?

Ashley James:
Definitely. Absolutely, because I was almost looking for someone to fill a hole where as now that there is no hole [crosstalk 00:03:02].

Alesha Dixon:
Amazing.

Ashley James:
It like encourages dependency, doesn’t it? It’s that really interesting thing where you’ll look past the flaws in someone else, and make excuses for them, but you’ll be quite hard on yourself, because you’re not in a position that you’re loving yourself yet. And that makes it really difficult to have a healthy relationship.

Alesha Dixon:
That’s right.

Ashley James:
Like really, really tricky.

Alesha Dixon:
Yeah. So who was your first love?

Ashley James:
He was 16, and he was captain of the football team at school. Yeah, he was amazing. Like we’re still friends.

Alesha Dixon:
That’s nice.

Ashley James:
I’m friends with a lot of my exes, but it was very obsessive love. I mean, it was so turbulent. I think he cheated on me 16 times. How bad is that? But then why did I stay with him for that long? We’d have these huge-

Alesha Dixon:
But you were young.

Ashley James:
… break off.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
So presumably, I mean you just said that you’re friends with exes. Is that something that you find quite easy or do you have to work at that?

Ashley James:
There’s different exes. Some of them I wouldn’t want to be friends with, because they weren’t particularly nice, but I love the fact that something brought you together in the first place, and like what you were saying, you can read. It’s nice when you get to a place by, you realize you were so wrong for each other, but you can be great friends-

Alesha Dixon:
Providing they weren’t an asshole.

Ashley James:
Exactly.

Alesha Dixon:
yes,.

Ashley James:
But also providing, and this is what I think is important. Providing that you both respect each other’s relationships, because I think you have to acknowledge that it can be difficult for the-

Alesha Dixon:
Absolutely.

Ashley James:
… new halfs.

Alesha Dixon:
If there’s a friendship, and like you said, there’s a mutual respect. I think if somebody has been cruel along the way, is very different. But I think you’re right in a situation where you, and your partner have split up because you just weren’t right for each other, but you’re both very lovely people, and you’re happy for each other in your current relationships then, why not?

Ashley James:
Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
Would you make an effort in what you wear to see an ex?

Ashley James:
I wouldn’t be bothered. But, I actually make more of an effort with ex’s partners just because I want them to not suspect like to not worry at all. So I’d go to more of an effort to make the partners feel at ease. So I’d probably more likely not wear something sexy out of respect to the other partner or something.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah. I so agree with that, because you want them to know that you just want to be friends and everything. You didn’t want them to feel in any way threatened, I guess.

Ashley James:
Unless it’s one of the exs I don’t like, I which case, I will turn up, just see the noise, and be like…

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah, you can’t be friends with all your exes.

Ashley James:
No.

Camilla Thurlow:
I guess that’s the other thing, isn’t it?

Alesha Dixon:
It’s like, how many friends do you need? It’s like, come on. Have you ever had a rebound? Or, do you have any good rebound stories?

Ashley James:
Take it as a yes.

Camilla Thurlow:
I don’t know. Does it count as a rebound?

Alesha Dixon:
If, or does it count-

Camilla Thurlow:
Well, no. I mean, as in an, actually… I think Johnny’s a good friend of yours as well isn’t-

Ashley James:
Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
Who’s Jonny?

Camilla Thurlow:
Johnny, Johnny. So Johnny was the one I was first had a sort of relationship going on with on Love Island, and actually we weren’t suited, but at the time I was very upset. I was literally filmed stood in a larder crying, because I couldn’t go out and see him with the new woman that he decided he liked, which it’s an interesting circumstance to be in.

Camilla Thurlow:
But then another gentleman came in who showed an interest, and I did rebound. And it took me a couple of days to realize that I had, and he also wasn’t right for me. But I was clinging to anything at that point that made me feel less sad, because I felt really, really sad. [crosstalk 00:06:43].

Alesha Dixon:
The whole time.

Camilla Thurlow:
Exactly. And, less rejected. And then I’ll sort of look back at my relationship history and was like, “Oh my goodness. So many times I’ve done that to myself.” So many times I have gone and chosen someone, because of the way I was feeling rather than what I felt about them.

Alesha Dixon:
Got you.

Camilla Thurlow:
But then, very shortly after that, Jamie came in, and I was quite lucky in that that initial rebound from the other person had sort of paved the way for me to take my time a bit more. And that ended up working out. And that’s to do with different people as well of course. But a rebound, it’s a really tricky time, because you don’t know how much you’re doing, because you feel a certain way, or how much you liked the other person.

Alesha Dixon:
Exactly.

Ashley James:
I’ve tried to rebound with an ex, and that was like, that just didn’t… Is never good to go back and say, [crosstalk 00:07:30]. Yeah, well it was after I dated Genuine or a little while after the Big Brother House, and Shock Horror that didn’t work out, and I just felt, I mean this is what we go and talk about attracting people.

Ashley James:
He’s got nine children to five different women. Like what was I expecting? But anyway, you live, and you learn. And, I decided, I just felt really low, especially when it is something that send me in the public, because you have that rejection, but then you also feel like a bit of a fool, because you don’t… And people want to ask about it in interviews and you can’t really say what you’re really thinking. And you have to be really polite.

Ashley James:
So yeah, I tried to rebound with an ex, and I invited him round and then the moment that he got there I was like, “This is a really terrible idea.” Like this is not going to make me feel better. So I was like, “I’m really sorry you’re going to have to leave.” He was like, “What?” “You’re just going to have to leave. I forgot. I’ve got personal training.” But it’s nine o’clock at night. “I know I’m doing this thing at the moment where I’m just doing it before bed.”

Ashley James:
So yeah, I think reboundong with an ex is never a good idea.

Alesha Dixon:
Not a good idea. This could be an awkward one. But do you think you ever compare new partners to old partners? Would you say, “Hmm, he’s not quite like so-and-so, or he doesn’t do it like so-and-so.” Does it?

Camilla Thurlow:
I think I definitely do, but not necessarily for good or bad reasons. And usually because there’s literally no type. So I’m like, “Wow, this guy is, however many years old or younger than the last one.” Or, people are different. So it might be that it’s like, “Oh, I would love the way this guy can apologize, because that person could never admit when he was wrong or like physically as well.”

Alesha Dixon:
Right, right.

Camilla Thurlow:
You’re like, “Okay.” I think comparison is normal, but it’s not that I’m trying to fill it, like to find another ex.

Alesha Dixon:
Do you think that love is different when you’re in your 20s and then obviously coming into your 30s then hitting my age 40?

Asley James:
I was in a relationship for seven years when I was younger, and I think my worst one is put up as they may be on now. So, but I think it’s different in that I know myself more now, so maybe I’m quicker to dismiss, or that’s not right or I don’t want this kind of person. A musician? No thanks. An athlete? No thanks. Whereas probably in my early 20s, I was like, “Oh, all of those things sound great.” But I think love is love, isn’t it? Like I think you can be in love at 16, 20, 30, 40, it’s that feeling.

Alesha Dixon:
When I think back to my first relationship when I was 16, it’s that thing where I thought I was in love, but I now understand that it wasn’t love. I mean maybe it was a version of love, but it wasn’t loving the in the pure sense of the word.

Ashley James:
Yeah. I think I did love… I still speak to my first boyfriend, and I’m still really close to his mum. I think I definitely did love him, but it was much more like obsessive love.
I remember the first time I met his parents, he was called Ashley as well. I was like, “Oh my God, when we get married, we’re both going to be called Ashley Nesbitt. And his parents were like, “This girl is a psycho.” So now I’ve loved to reign in psycho obsessive side a bit, but equally I really enjoy that kind of… I know it’s not necessarily love, but I love that kind of getting carried away thing, and even though I’ve learned that you maybe have to take your time to get to know someone a bit more, I also don’t want to lose that giddiness that you feel.

Camilla Thurlow:
I feel like a big part of how love changes as you grow older is how your self-love changes, and your self worth changes, and that totally changes the nature of the love that you can then give to someone else. Because I feel like when you’re younger, and maybe you’re a bit unsure and you have a few knocks, like you were saying, you’re always informed by your experience and maybe that’s fed some kind of insecurities, or feelings of inadequacy. It’s then really hard to wholy love another person, because you have these constant worries, these little niggles and this fear of abandonment that really plays into the way that you behave around them. And that doesn’t necessarily mean they were the wrong person, or you didn’t love them, but possibly that it was the wrong timing, or that there was a lot for you to do for yourself-

Alesha Dixon:
That’s right.

Camilla Thurlow:
… before you were able to be in that relationship. And so, I don’t think that that takes away from that being love, but it stops you from wholeheartedly embracing love, exactly being-

Alesha Dixon:
I really agree. And for me, my 20s were very turbulent within myself. I was still working through a lot of things, and I couldn’t love properly in my 20s, and therefore kind of going back to what we were saying in the beginning about when you’re in a really healthy place, you attract someone healthy. It’s like the person I’m with now, I genuinely don’t think I could have attracted him in my 20s. I think the better I became in myself, and the more self love and the more I healed, the more I was able to meet somebody of like-mindedness.

Ashley James:
I went to this amazing talk, a couple of years ago when I was kind of at rock bottom with my self worth and the type of people that I was attracting as a result. And it was about love addiction, and it was honestly life changing and it made me realize little things like if I panicked, that someone was going to reject me, I’d almost like self sabotage. So I would lash out and do things to try and test them almost.

Ashley James:
And now I’ve learned it’s such an obvious lesson, but it’s just communication. You can explain how you feel without necessarily making you like a psycho, or not allowing myself to get to that stage where I self sabotage, or lash out and it’s meant that I’m actually attracting better people, and they also understand me quicker.

Alesha Dixon:
In a way, every relationship you’re in is like a teachable moment. When you learn something about yourself. And I think that’s a really positive thing. And I guess the idea is to hopefully grow together rather than apart.

Camilla Thurlow:
And actually thinking about what you said earlier about keeping the spark alive and things like that, I think it’s important to remember we are a mirror image in our relationships in so many ways. And there was a moment the other night where I sitting there, we were having a cuddle thinking like I really hope he says to me, I love you so much. And then I was like, “Why can’t I just say that to him first?” And so then I said it.

Camilla Thurlow:
So sometimes being the person, things that you want, don’t forget the other person wants them as well. And trying to be that person. I think that can only improve your relationship.

Alesha Dixon:
You’re so right when you say that, because it’s that typical thing and I’ve done it where you’re expecting them to do something, and you sit in your stubbornness, but actually just hearing you say that, it’s a learnable moment again, because I think sometimes it’s about, well, no, if you’re sitting there thinking I want them to do something, why don’t you just do it.

Camilla Thurlow:
Do it. exactly.

Alesha Dixon:
And then you’ll receive it back.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
It works both ways, doesn’t it? Very interesting. Right. So this is a bit shallow now, off the back of that deep conversation, but have either of you ever bought an outfit with a partner in mind?

Camilla Thurlow:
Yes! Completely. I’ve been through some real interesting phases of dressing, which have definitely been influenced by my partner at the time. And so, you know, you have a boyfriend who likes rock, and suddenly you’re turning up in distressed jeans, and a leather jacket.

Alesha Dixon:
So you would like conform to their likes in a way.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah. And I did it consciously, because I think some people it unconsciously in relationship. You know when you see a couple and they kind of ended up looking like each other, but quite naturally or they always did and they’ve just found each other. Lovely. Lovely thought. But I was trying to shape myself around other people, and that’s not a good way to approach things.

Camilla Thurlow:
I don’t think it’s all very well to be like, “Wow, I actually really love how you’re addressing and I would like to dress that way.” For me, that’s one thing, but I definitely just wasn’t comfortable enough in my own skin to feel confident about what I was wearing.

Alesha Dixon:
Right. What about you, Ashley?

Ashley James:
Yeah, I think I would agree. I’m the same. That I would maybe not know who I was enough, that when I’d meet someone I’d kind of become so infatuated with the idea of them, and kind of picture my life with them, that I would make some questionable clothing choices. or, kind of just changed my whole interest and everything.

Ashley James:
And I remember there’s been people in the past where I’d be like, “I just wish that they tell me what they want from me so that I can be like that.” Whereas now I know my, and it’s embarrassing to admit and, I think I wasn’t like that as a teen. I was very confident, and it was only in like my late twenties when I went through a lot of like insecurity and I remember being like, “Will they like this dress?” Or, “They seem quite chic. I’m going to spend more money than I can afford on this chic dress, so that they think that I am right for them.” Or whatever it would be. I also went through a goth stage, which… It actually wasn’t because I dated a goth.

Alesha Dixon:
Just loved it.

Ashley James:
Yeah, just… We got really into Marelyn Manson.

Camilla Thurlow:
I don’t think it’s embarrassing to admit

Alesha Dixon:
No, it’s not.

Camilla Thurlow:
… at all, because it’s, you’re thinking, if I am the perfect woman for them, they’re not going to leave me. And if you’ve been through any kind of heartbreak, you know how terrible it is and you know that you don’t want it to happen again. And those things like hair and clothing, the things you can control, they’re the only things you can control. You can’t control how the other person is feeling.

Camilla Thurlow:
And so it’s really natural to take those elements that you can control and try and use them to make sure that you’re not going to get hurt.

Ashley James:
Plus, obviously I’m much more confident in who I am and I wear the clothes that I like. But equally, if I know, for example that the guy who I really like his favorite color is red, then I think it’s nice that you put on some red underwear, or you go for dinner and a red dress, because you know they’re going to be like, “All right.”

Alesha Dixon:
Yeah.

Camilla Thurlow:
It’s so true. But what would you do then you came down as this what used to happen to me quite a lot, because I’ve never been quite good at nailing a trend. So I’d come down in what I thought was my rock chick outfit, and they’d be like, “Oh, I’m not sure about that.” Because I wouldn’t have nailed the look. And in fact, I don’t nail any look so I don’t know why I’m saying that…

Camilla Thurlow:
But as in, then if I did something for them because I thought they would like it, then if they didn’t like it, I found it really hurtful.

Alesha Dixon:
It’s so interesting, isn’t it?

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
It’s interesting how clothes can kind of represent like, what’s going on within you at a certain period of time in your life.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yes, definitely. Definitely.

Alesha Dixon:
Well, we’re going to take a very short break, but we’ll be back and I’ll be asking these two about heartbreaks, and who passes. Hmm. And we’ve got a game lined up to put them on the spot.

Alesha Dixon:
Let’s take a second to talk about dating, whether you’ve got a longterm partner or a brand new love interest. What’s your predate night routine? I like to get myself a new fix, so I fill my ultimate best. For any of you with a hot date on the cards, go check out stitchfix.co.uk, and book yourself a Fix today. Treat yourselves. You deserve it.

Alesha Dixon:
Welcome back. I’m Alesha Dixon, and today on Wear It’s At, I’m talking love lost and everything in between with my guests, Camilla Thurlow and Ashley James. Sorry ladies. Have you ever been heartbroken?

Camilla Thurlow:
Yes.

Ashley James:
More times than I would like to think.

Alesha Dixon:
Oh no.

Ashley James:
Yes. Yeah, I keep talking about this late stage in my late 20s, but it was after having my biggest heartbreak to date. It’s the first guy that I’ve lived with, and when I broke up with him, my self esteem was all over the place, and I was just kind of not bouncing from guy to guy, because every person I did really like them.

Ashley James:
But looking back, I pick the most inappropriate succession of guys, but I think heart break never gets easier. I remember being with my first love, and then when my heart was broken, and I remember being like, “I can’t wait to be in my 20s when guys aren’t players, and they don’t break your heart anymore.”

Ashley James:
And now I’m like 32 I’m like, “What are these guys going to turn up?” So yeah, I think no matter how many times you go through it, it never gets easier.

Alesha Dixon:
What about you Camilla?

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah, I’ve definitely been heartbroken. One of them was pretty public actually. I’d only just started sort of letting myself like people again on Love Island, and it’s still just like that little piece of your soul being taken away in a way you feel quite empty, and it’s difficult to bounce back from that. So the thing is, that’s why I really like identify with what you are saying that after a big heartbreak actually it’s really hard to form a functional relationship.

Camilla Thurlow:
But for anyone going through a heartbreak right now, I think we can all say that time as we know is like the greatest healer.

Alesha Dixon:
Do you believe you have to get under someone to get over someone?

Ashley James:
No. I’m the opposite. I feel like I never want to lead anyone on and I think my physical and my emotional sides are quite connected. I couldn’t get under someone if I was into someone else. I’d feel like that would be the worst thing.

Alesha Dixon:
Women are quite extreme when they have a breakup. They either completely shut off from men altogether, and they don’t want to know, and they don’t want to entertain it, or they go the opposite way and they become promiscuous and just rebellious. In a way.

Ashley James:
I feel like nothing is better for heartbreak than the Sex and the City boxset.

Alesha Dixon:
It’s so good. I want to talk to you about dating. I mean, have you recently been on a dating scene? And when was the last time you went out on a date?

Ashley James:
I didn’t date for ages. And you know how people always say, “Oh, you’ll find someone when you’re not looking.” And I feel like, I took that way too far and I was like, “Unless someone like drops from a plane, and lands in my house, I’m not going to meet anyone.” And then I tried to dabble with online dating, but I find it a bit awkward, but I did force myself to go on an online date and I was so nervous.

Ashley James:
I felt totally out of my comfort zone and it was fine. But I just, it’s hard because I feel like they’re just a total stranger. And then actually, I’d have gone on a date recently with somebody that I met on the plane on the way back from Coachella.

Alesha Dixon:
Oh really?

Ashley James:
Yeah. So that’d be cool.

Alesha Dixon:
Oh, that’s cool.

Ashley James:
Yeah. it’s exciting.

Alesha Dixon:
But I think, when you say about the dating Apps, I think that this generation now it’s the normality. Because the reality is that is how people are meeting these things.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah, and it’s how you feel comfortable getting to know someone. I feel like people have become way more accustomed to getting to know someone in an online space. Whereas for example with Jamie, and I who are a bit older, we don’t even really WhatsApp during the day.

Camilla Thurlow:
We don’t go back and forth very much, and we prefer our time to be kind of face to face, and I think actually that’s kind of old school in a relationship sense as well. Not Quite a lot of people, you know, their relationship grows through that contact, so it’s just like a different, there’s a changing time.

Alesha Dixon:
Do you think people are meeting less in real life now then?

Camilla Thurlow:
I think that’s a really tricky one to answer, because is that to say that meeting someone online isn’t real life, because a lot of our reality is online.

Alesha Dixon:
However though, the energy that you pick up from someone when you’re in their space, in their company is completely different to when it’s screen time.

Camilla Thurlow:
It is for sure. But I also think so there’s always this kind of thing of, oh, you’re just picking someone for a picture. So you’re making looks more important. And that’s true of some of the apps, and less true of some of the other apps. But there is also the counter argument that online, if you haven’t met someone face to face, it’s very hard to know if you’re genuinely physically attracted to them or just to the picture of them.

Camilla Thurlow:
And if you get to know them online first ,and they have really similar interests, so they say things that you’re like, “Oh my gosh, that’s my favorite band too.” Or something like that where you get this common ground, you might be encouraged that when you meet them in person, and they’re not necessarily exactly how you thought they would look, you still want to get to know them.

Camilla Thurlow:
And I think that that’s, it’s worth us considering that happens as well. It’s bizarre, because lots of people meeting that way, but it’s taboo in so many other ways, and people pretend that they didn’t meet online.

Alesha Dixon:
Right. Like there’s something to ashamed of.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah, exactly. And I think there’s a lot to be said.

Ashley James:
Do you know what’s so funny, when I first downloaded the online apps, I found it so stressful based on what you’re saying around it being about looks. Because, when you look at my ex boyfriends, I mean I have zero type. If you were to see them all lined up, you’d be like, “She doesn’t know what she wants.”

Ashley James:
They’re all funny. They’re all funny. So I’m stressed with this online dating thing, because I was like, “How can I know if I’m going to get on with someone based on these images.” As everyone was like, “Ash, just relax. Just like pick the pictures that you like.” But still I was like, “What if the love of my life, I’ve swiped him, because I didn’t think he was-

Camilla Thurlow:
Yes.

Alesha Dixon:
Yes. So true. What’s your ideal date?

Camilla Thurlow:
Sitting on the sofa with my pajamas.

Alesha Dixon:
Sounds good.

Ashley James:
I mean that’s my ideal date. But usually that’s by myself.

Alesha Dixon:
So yours is pajamas. What about you?

Ashley James:
Do you know what, I actually love romance, and I think it doesn’t necessarily have to be like fancy and expensive. Sometimes the best dates are the ones that are just, you go to a dive bar and the music’s gray and you end up dancing all night. So I think it very much depends on the vibe. I am someone that would prefer to be underdressed than overdressed, because you want them to think that you look good but you haven’t made too much of an effort.

Alesha Dixon:
Exactly, I like that.

Camilla Thurlow:
Where your pajamas, that’s zero effort. I love that.

Alesha Dixon:
There’s different levels of pajamas too.

Camilla Thurlow:
That’s so true, so true.

Alesha Dixon:
But, do you judge your date by what he’s wearing?

Camilla Thurlow:
So I don’t think I do, but that is because I am not very confident in dressing myself. But I have no problem with people who do, because I think if you were passionate about clothes, you want that to be something you could probably share with your partner. The thing is I know I would miss the obvious fashionable thing that they were wearing, because I’m not always in tune with that side of things.

Alesha Dixon:
You pay close attention to the way they groomed themselves.

Camilla Thurlow:
Do you know what, I don’t think I do either. And in fact one of like, it’s an ongoing joke between Jamie and I that, for the whole of, so our second day on Love Island, we were sat at the edge of the pool and through the whole thing he picked his feet, his toenails, and he still does it now. In fact, sometimes you know when you sit in like the crook of your boyfriends arm, he will have his arm round the other side of me picking his toenails, which you would think would be a huge no, no. But because it’s him, I don’t mind.

Ashley James:
I really hope I meet someone who I love enough that I’m happy to let them pick their toe nails. like, that is goals.

Alesha Dixon:
I’m such a hypocrite in my relationship because I’m the type of person that I can do things that he can’t. But if it was the other way around, I wouldn’t be okay with it. And that’s not fair is it? But I’ve got no shame. I’ll do anything in front of him. I think once your partner’s seen give birth, I mean pretty much there’s nothing left. It’s all out the window. Is ever okay to fancy someone who isn’t your partner?

Ashley James:
As long as you’re not acting on it. But I think crushes are normal.

Alesha Dixon:
What if you’re in a relationship?

Ashley James:
As long as you’re not acting on it, I think it’s fine to have like someone that you could be like, yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
There’s a fine line I think, because I can honestly say like when I’m in a relationship I don’t fancy anyone else. I can acknowledge if somebody is good looking, because I have eyes. But, there’s a difference between acknowledging someone being attractive, and actually fancying them.

Camilla Thurlow:
I’m so the same as you in that, of course I can appreciate if someone’s attractive or sometimes actually I’ve been known to not be very good at recognizing this and, but I have been told, you know, like my friends will be like, “Don’t worry. He’s very attractive.” But I don’t fancy them but… I will say saying perhaps that’s a little bit laziness on my part where I’m like, “Oh, I’m very happy in my current relationship.” I don’t have the emotional capacity to to think about that.

Alesha Dixon:
I don’t think that’s lazy.

Camilla Thurlow:
Okay, good.

Alesha Dixon:
No, no, no, no. I don’t think it’s lazy. I think some people can be in a relationship and genuinely have a wandering eye, and fancy other people. So what’s your view then on open relationships? Because some people are opting for less traditional relationships now.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah, I think everyone should do whatever they want to do.

Ashley James:
Yeah.

Camilla Thurlow:
But to me it sounds like a lot of hard work. And, I can’t stop thinking about the food bill at the end of the week. But I think everyone should do what makes them happy.

Ashley James:
Yeah. I think as long as it works for both sides, and you’re not kind of being emotionally manipulated into being happy with it if it’s one sided. But for me, I’m very selfish, and I’m not sharing.

Alesha Dixon:
But what, what do you think would be the pros and the cons in a multiple relationship?

Camilla Thurlow:
Well I think people who are able to do it, and it’s an appealing thought for them must be so brilliantly self-confident, and so feel just… They must just be so comfortable in their own skins, and so confident with a relationship like that. And, so much of me would love to feel that way. I have so much admiration for people who can just feel happy being themselves.

Camilla Thurlow:
And that’s possibly a very sad thing for me to say that, because I know one of the big things that would pay on my mind are actually related to my insecurities as opposed to my partner having relationship with someone else.

Ashley James:
I mean, I can’t even get my mind into that head space of thinking what that would feel like. Just sounds too emotionally draining.

Ashley James:
And I think I’d be nervous that they have an emotional connection with someone else.

Camilla Thurlow:
You have to have such a rock solid trust in your partner, which you can have, but do you really want to test that?

Alesha Dixon:
Oh, relationships. They’re very messy.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yeah.

Alesha Dixon:
Do you believe in the break? Like same friends.

Ashley James:
We were on a break.

Alesha Dixon:
We were on a break. Is it ever okay to sleep with somebody on a break, and return back to that relationship and that be okay?

Ashley James:
I guess it depends on what the agreements were, and if you’re honest, I think if you secretly slept with someone else and then went back into the relationship, that’s kind of doomed, because it’s always, well not always, but it’s more than likely to creep up at some point.

Alesha Dixon:
Yeah.

Ashley James:
And skeletons in closets aren’t necessarily a good thing when you’re trying to have an open, honest relationship. But some people; it does work that they break up, or go on a break and take time to think about what they want and maybe start dating someone else to appreciate, “Wow, I really had something with that person.” I think as long as there’s honesty, that there’s no right formula with the relationship.

Alesha Dixon:
What about the hall pass?

Ashley James:
Isn’t it this thing where like when you were a teenager, and your boyfriend said, “I really fancy Scarlett Johansson, she’s my hall pass.” And so, you’re like, “Well, I know that you will never meet her.”

Alesha Dixon:
But you just don’t know that in this life.

Ashley James:
But now, there’s social media. So it’s easier to reach out to people, but back then, Hollywood movie stars were very, very far away when you were in the lake district. So I would [crosstalk 00:29:54].

Camilla Thurlow:
Now your 16 year old boyfriend in the lake district could slide into Scarlet’s DMs.

Alesha Dixon:
So on that note, because we are running short of time, but before we finish I just want to play a quick game of Snog, marry and avoid. Right. So who would you snog, marry or avoid out of Idris Elba, Daniel Craig, and Tom Hardy.

Ashley James:
I would definitely marry Idris. I’d like to wake up to him every day. Tom Hardy I would definitely snog just because most of my friends fancy him. So I’d like to be like, “Ha ha, I snogged him.” And then Daniel Craig, I’d avoid.

Camilla Thurlow:
I’m going to concur.

Alesha Dixon:
I’ll just concur too. Robbie Williams, Craig David and Ed Sheeran.

Ashley James:
I know Craig and I’d probably marry him, because he’s very a nice guy, isn’t he? He’s like lovely.

Camilla Thurlow:
Is he?

Alesha Dixon:
That’s good news.

Ashley James:
I’d avoid Robbie Williams, and I’d snog Ed.

Alesha Dixon:
Last one. David Williams and, Ant & Dec.

Camilla Thurlow:
Oh my gosh. I love David Williams. I would totally marry him.

Alesha Dixon:
And avoid Ant or Dec? I mean, they come as one.

Camilla Thurlow:
Yes, exactly.

Alesha Dixon:
They comes a pair.

Ashley James:
I have to stick to my Jordy roots, and I snog Ant & Dec and marry Ant & Dec.

Alesha Dixon:
There you go. Unfortunately, that’s all we’ve got time for in this episode of Wear It’s At. So a massive thank you to my guests, Camilla Thurlow and Ashley James for joining me today. It’s been lovely having you guys with me, and hearing some valuable pearls of wisdom from you both about the world of love and laugh. Thank you ladies.

Ashley James:
Thank you.

Camilla Thurlow:
Thank you.

Alesha Dixon:
We hope you’ve enjoyed listening to this week’s episode. Tune in next time when I’ll be joined by the infectious Gizzi Erskine, and Lauren Mohan as we discuss live speak , What Ifs in the Redo Button. You don’t want to miss it.

Alesha Dixon:
Okay, spill. Who was your first ever crush? Doesn’t matter how embarrassing it is. We want to know. So tell us by tagging us, Stitch Fix UK, and hashtag, Where It’s At in your posts on Instagram. The person with our favorite answer will win a free fix on us. What are you waiting for?